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Transcript

Give Good Face 
ANTHONY ROSSI (00:00.822)
Hi everyone, welcome back to Give Good Face. I'm Dr. Anthony Rossi and today I am really, really excited to have Dr. Corey Hartman on all the way from Burlingame, Alabama, making a stopover in New York and I was lucky enough to grab him along the way. So Dr. Hartman, how are you?

DR COREY HARTMAN (00:19.815)
I'm doing well. Life's crazy, but we're making it.

ANTHONY ROSSI (00:23.384)
Yeah, whenever I think I'm traveling a lot, think about you and I follow your Instagram and I was like, he's blowing me out of the water.

DR COREY HARTMAN (00:29.902)
It's been a crazy spring. Yeah, with a lot of like double trips where I'd go one place one day and another place the next day, sometimes across the country. So it's been a lot of moving around, but it's all fun.

ANTHONY ROSSI (00:40.684)
Yeah, you're always in good spirits. I feel like your disposition is always light and bright and you have a positive energy about you.

DR COREY HARTMAN (00:49.632)
I appreciate that. I try my best. I always want people to feel better after they leave me than when they came. you know what I mean? Try to find the happy end. There's always gonna be a positive that you can dwell on if you choose to. And so that's what we try to do in all things.

ANTHONY ROSSI (01:07.66)
Yeah, tell us a little bit, just so everyone knows your practices in Birmingham. It's a pretty big center.

DR COREY HARTMAN (01:12.524)
Yes. Yes. So we have a single specialty practice, two locations, three derms. We have two nurse practitioners, a PA and four estheticians. And we do comprehensive dermatology with some of us doing more complex medical derms, some of us doing more procedural cosmetic things. The only thing we don't do in-house is Mohs.

But one of our docs, and we don't do DermPath, although Sophie is a dermatopathologist. So she reads slides up the street at a DermPath group once a week.

ANTHONY ROSSI (01:49.806)
So it's pretty much a comprehensive center of skin care.

DR COREY HARTMAN (01:53.484)
Yeah, we can do pretty much everything.

ANTHONY ROSSI (01:55.623)
And then how'd you start that? Because I know a lot of people ask me, like, how do I get started? What's the path? And everyone has like their own unique path.

DR COREY HARTMAN (02:00.728)
Yeah.

Sure, so I trained at UAB. That's what brought me to Birmingham. Never in a million years that I think I would stay in Birmingham. I think anybody who's known me in my life would tell you that they were surprised that I would choose Birmingham. No to Birmingham. Grew up in New Orleans. I went to college in Atlanta at Emory and then med school in Nashville at Meharry. And went back home for one year to do internship and then matched UAB, lived there, thought I was gonna be out in three years.

One of our teachers, our professors, Dr. Pat Mercado, hey Pat, she's still on faculty there. She is from Jersey. And, Shut up. Jersey. And she told me, she asked me one time, we started talking about this and I was like, I'm just here for residency. And she said, that's what I said 19 years ago. Damn. And here I am. 23 years later, still in Birmingham. But Birmingham has come a long way. Yeah. When we first moved there, it was not great.

ANTHONY ROSSI (02:42.232)
to the Tri-State.

DR COREY HARTMAN (03:00.534)
And now it's

ANTHONY ROSSI (03:06.414)
I mean, well, you rekindled with

DR COREY HARTMAN (03:08.602)
Yes, rekindled with my wife. So we had both gone to Meharry. She's an orthodontist. She's actually a year younger than me, but two years ahead, because she only went to college for two years and then started dental school. she finished. She's smart. She's very smart. She moved to DC to do her orthodontic residency at Howard and then she's from North Alabama. So she moved back to Birmingham, the largest city. And I moved to Birmingham a year later and moved into her building. So the day I'm moving in, she comes walking out and it's like this.

ANTHONY ROSSI (03:20.363)
Yes.

DR COREY HARTMAN (03:38.636)
wow moment, right? My mother's like, that's gonna be your wife and all this. Come to find out, I didn't realize that she had been peeping me from inside and told her brother, I think I know that guy. And so she walks out and anyway, the rest casually walked out. stalking me. So that's our origin story. we, so even after that, I didn't think I was gonna stay in Birmingham. We thought we would go back to New Orleans. So New Orleans,

until recently had only one black dermatologist since like the seventies in the whole state. Wow. Okay. Dr. Errol Quintel, stalwart in the community, mentor of mine. One of the reasons why I was interested in Durham, cause he was a neighbor. And at 14 years old, I kind of knew that's what I wanted to do. So I was one of the rare people I think who went to med school, even back then.

kind of focused on it. These days you kind of have to, because it's so crazy. And it was competitive, but it wasn't like 11 publications competitive. But knowing that was really helpful so that I could like scratch everything off the list. And then I actually had spent some time with him and altered my rotation schedule to sort of give me a leg up. So anyway, that was, so we were going to go back to New Orleans, but it was the year Katrina happened.

ANTHONY ROSSI (04:58.936)
Okay, yeah.

DR COREY HARTMAN (04:59.726)
And terrible time to go back for somebody who's not from there. And as a dentist, my wife would have, a specialist would have, at the time you had to bring your own patients for the practical exam and you did things that you would never do as a specialist, like crowns and things like that. That would be like us having to find patients to do EKGs and stuff like that, right? Not gonna happen. So New Orleans was out. Then I thought, well, maybe Atlanta. I, you know.

gone to Emory and loved Atlanta, but I realized that my version of Atlanta was like a five mile radius around Emory University. It's beautiful. It's gorgeous, but the reality of two professionals finding jobs that they liked and a house that they liked in an area that wasn't gonna put us on the road for an hour and half every day seemed like a lot. So I say, know what, let me just stay here. I'll stay on the faculty for a year and then we'll figure it out. So I stayed on the faculty.

That was a rough patch for UAB. had a little rough patch there and I realized that that was not for me. So I left after a year and I went to a multi-specialty group down the road. Cause I realized, I knew that I wanted to start my own practice, but I also knew that I didn't really know enough about business to do that. So I went there for two years and picked up the tips and tricks of the insurance game and just figured out a few things. And then I started.

this practice in 2009. Oh wow. So yeah, we're going on 17 years, like two weeks before my son was born. Amazing. Yeah, we had a lot going on. No, was me, an office manager, two nurses and two front desk, and we had like 2000 square feet. Wow. And that quickly- It's still a lot. It's still a lot. Oh, for New York, it would've been crazy. I remember when Kim Nichols came down and do us into it, she was like, oh my God, all this real estate, the square footage, you know?

ANTHONY ROSSI (06:32.226)
And you didn't start out this big.

DR COREY HARTMAN (06:52.206)
So yeah, so then we moved, I bought a building, 5,000 square feet. We kept growing. We were there about five years. We started a satellite office, maybe 14 miles down the road where we were leasing from a OBGYN group. And then we had an opportunity to get our own space next door. The main office, we bought a building and we occupied almost the whole top floor. So we had about 10,000 square feet. We had one tenant up there.

And yeah, we just expanded a lot of services. And then three years ago, the endodontist that was on the same floor with us retired. So we developed that. Now we have like a whole clinical trials area. Love clinical trials, yes.

ANTHONY ROSSI (07:34.146)
You do your clinic, I mean, you're super well known in dermatology and aesthetics mainly because that's your focus, right? And, you know, how did you develop out the clinical trial? What is it about clinical trials that you like? Because not everyone loves doing them.

DR COREY HARTMAN (07:49.964)
Yeah, you know, it can be tedious. I like being on the cutting edge of what's coming. I like participating in the collaboration that comes from doing the trials, knowing about these products firsthand. When you do that, then you are kind of automatically sort of like the expert when they need to launch the product or for the publications. And so I find that it's one of those things that

It almost like self selects as you do it more and more and more.

ANTHONY ROSSI (08:20.142)
It makes you grow as a clinician too, right? Sure. Yeah. I mean, my patients always ask me like, what's the next best thing? What's this? And, you know, I go to Korea a lot and like I see all these peptides and polynucleotides and, you know, they're just not fully vetted here yet. And I do think there's a lot to say about like the clinical trial, how it's done, when it's done, where it's done and, you know, what we can learn from.

DR COREY HARTMAN (08:23.395)
For sure.

DR COREY HARTMAN (08:44.802)
Yeah, and it's a different pace. You get to interact with patients in a different way, which I really like. It gets my hands on things that I wouldn't necessarily have access to as early. So it's worked out great. Yeah, I like clinical trials.

ANTHONY ROSSI (08:58.262)
Yeah, and it's kept you sharp. So, you know, you're pretty well known on social media, for better or for worse, but I feel like you enjoy it, right? Hey!

DR COREY HARTMAN (09:00.628)
Yeah, it does. It does.

DR COREY HARTMAN (09:10.382)
You know what, Anthony, I said that I would stop doing it when it wasn't fun anymore. And I do have my moments where I feel like, you know, it kind of has jumped the shark a little bit, but it still engages me enough to participate.

ANTHONY ROSSI (09:22.252)
think you're scroll stopping because when I'm just like scrolling I see you I stop because I want to hear what you have to say. No, for real. Because I do think you have a genuine honesty about you and it's you're not only just you know saying like positive things, well you say a lot of positive but sometimes you throw some shade.

DR COREY HARTMAN (09:42.478)
I mean, it keeps it fresh, it keeps it honest. We all have a point of view. And I don't think there's anything wrong with sharing that point of view. I try to be courteous. I always try to be kind.

ANTHONY ROSSI (09:55.384)
Yeah, I think that's how you do it well. It's always from a good point of view.

DR COREY HARTMAN (10:00.462)
Yeah, and there are certain things I probably wouldn't do. Like, you know, if you see me post a celebrity in like a before and after situation or like a this, age, that, it's gonna be because it's a positive thing because they look great. I'm not gonna like tear somebody down. I don't think that there's really any place for that kind of stuff. yeah, we can do that.

ANTHONY ROSSI (10:20.866)
think bad work is so noticeable. You don't need to tear it down because unfortunately it still exists, which is even crazier because if you're a celebrity, you should be going to, or at least doing your due diligence. But when you post before and afters and it's a glow up, that's great. But some people come after you for that still.

DR COREY HARTMAN (10:33.752)
Yeah.

DR COREY HARTMAN (10:40.744)
Well, okay, the thing that people used to get me on for that was they would always say, and this would frustrate me so much, but they have money. I'm like, that's not really the point. You know what I mean? So that was, and people don't really do that anymore because I would call people out. Yeah. Because there are plenty of people with money who look terrible. It's not just the money. Of course, money helps everything, but yeah.

ANTHONY ROSSI (11:02.414)
I do think you can do a lot even on a budget. course. mean, everything from simple skincare to diet exercise, obviously, most of that's free, even off the diet, but the exercise.

DR COREY HARTMAN (11:06.67)
of

DR COREY HARTMAN (11:16.29)
Yeah, and honestly, even if you do procedures, you have to kind of have those things in place anyway, or it's not gonna be as meaningful.

ANTHONY ROSSI (11:23.384)
That's how I feel. feel like there always has to be this holistic approach. And I feel like you and I touched upon this is that I tell my patients, like, look at your parents. That's how you would naturally age or your grandparents. you know, and if you want to intervene on that, we're here for you.

DR COREY HARTMAN (11:42.478)
It's like a crystal ball, what's coming. And so yeah, you can choose which way you wanna go. And it's helpful, patients come in and they've identified things in their parents and things that maybe their parents should have taken action on and they didn't and they wanna get ahead of that kind of stuff. So yeah, it's a good conversation starter.

ANTHONY ROSSI (12:01.422)
And do you feel like people are jumping on more trends even in Birmingham or because I feel like here it's like we see a lot of trends but New York sort of has like a conservative subtleness, subtlety, really, you know, people want to not look done.

DR COREY HARTMAN (12:13.257)
Sure.

DR COREY HARTMAN (12:16.968)
Sure, when you compare New York to its pure city, not pure, but you know, there's really no place like New York, but Los Angeles, Miami, not as subtle. Not. You know? Not as subtle, maybe even like Dallas. So yeah, I know what you mean. But we get some of the, nobody really wants to look done so they say in the South, but then I find myself really guarding their beauty.

ANTHONY ROSSI (12:26.935)
Yeah.

DR COREY HARTMAN (12:46.208)
Yeah. Pour them down the line. And I tell them what's gonna happen. Like you're coming in now and you're telling me what not to do and what you don't want. And eventually it's gonna be me telling you. We tell people no all day long. Yeah.

ANTHONY ROSSI (12:56.584)
Same. And that's, it's so interesting that you said that because I do, and I mean it from a place, you know, we always talk about not practicing paternalistic medicine and like letting the patient choose. And I think it's really important you give people options, but when it comes to aesthetics, I really do feel like you need a guide. need an aesthetic sherpa.

DR COREY HARTMAN (13:16.812)
You have to because like Sabrina Fabby's published on, your eye adjusts to a new normal. Yeah. so all you remember, perception drift, all you remember is the joy that you got when this procedure was done before. So any variation that you think, I need more. And let's be honest, okay, this is when they call me shady, the industry- We're gonna zoom in right now. I mean, hello. A lot of the injectable companies and I work with a lot of them,

didn't really do a great job of stopping this because, I don't know if you remember, but there used to be this thinking that filler had to be done every year, at least, if not every six months. And I'm like, that is insane. It's insane. And of course now we know that they stick around a lot longer. And if you don't have that person with the objective eye telling you, no, you can fall into that trap.

ANTHONY ROSSI (14:12.046)
think one of the main things in aesthetics is the restraint. Like you have to have restraints, you know? It's not like you want to be a maximalist when it comes to aesthetics. know, do your wardrobe, do your hair, go for it. Especially with the fillers and the bio, know, stimulatory fillers as well, like you got to be concerned or show restraints, you know?

DR COREY HARTMAN (14:15.021)
Yes.

DR COREY HARTMAN (14:24.94)
Sure, do it up.

DR COREY HARTMAN (14:34.638)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I always saw patients, the art is in the restraint. Yeah. Even in something as simple as toxin, mean, anybody can go and like overdose you with toxin and knock out all your expressions and smooth all your lines. Yeah. But is that really what you want?

ANTHONY ROSSI (14:51.266)
I know. I kind of want your skin. You have no...

DR COREY HARTMAN (14:53.46)
Well, you know. Right on the.

ANTHONY ROSSI (14:57.538)
We're not gonna flash your age on the screen, if y'all wondering, he's 51.

DR COREY HARTMAN (15:02.382)
51. I'm a proud 51, Jenna.

ANTHONY ROSSI (15:04.928)
You look amazing. thank you. What's your skin care?

DR COREY HARTMAN (15:08.366)
So I am pretty simple and I do a lot of things that maybe you shouldn't do. Like I've been using a retinol in the morning for like 17 years just because I'm more of a morning person. Totally. I get up five, I mean, you know, and you know, if you look at some of the reasoning behind why we dose the retinoid, now of course there's the whole skin cell turnover while you're sleeping, but a lot of that was based on the fact that the retinol

ANTHONY ROSSI (15:23.426)
That's a good point.

DR COREY HARTMAN (15:37.314)
the tretino in itself, retin-A would break down in the sun, the compound. Once you put it on your skin, it doesn't break down. You will get a little peely, it's right, increased- in period. Correct, but that doesn't mean that the sun did that, but people kind of conflate the two. Anyway, I would rather you find a good time to do it where you can be consistent than not do it because you're trying to, I'm trying to fit something into your life that's not gonna work.

ANTHONY ROSSI (15:50.507)
right now.

ANTHONY ROSSI (16:04.952)
Exactly.

DR COREY HARTMAN (16:05.282)
Because like you said a few simple key ingredients Consistently does more than hopping around from every trend

ANTHONY ROSSI (16:13.654)
And that's, know people want like the newest skincare ingredient. And I'm like, we have like really solid things, you know? And if you stick to these and be consistent and compliant, like they work. I also, you know, it depends like when I remember, you know, if I remember, do it in the morning, I do it in the morning. I just put my sunblock over it. And plus you're in the house, you're like indoors for a little bit. So, and then, you know.

DR COREY HARTMAN (16:25.816)
They will work. Yeah. Yeah.

ANTHONY ROSSI (16:41.396)
Usually when I go to bed, I put it on too. I do remember the first person who put me on a topical retinoid was a derm resident that I was rotating with. And they were like, dude, you need to use this.

DR COREY HARTMAN (16:45.064)
in his night at night.

DR COREY HARTMAN (16:55.95)
I think that's how, I started as a resident for sure. And I was like boss of the Waltz Hazard Act.

ANTHONY ROSSI (17:01.676)
Me too. I actually do off-label total body tazera. I it on my butt, my thighs. It will make you peely, but it's helping all that skin. Not on my butt. It gets expensive and it will make you a little irritated. Make my eczema flare.

DR COREY HARTMAN (17:05.462)
Okay. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah.

DR COREY HARTMAN (17:14.478)
You do it every day? No. Well, just because it gets expensive.

DR COREY HARTMAN (17:22.015)
Okay, I can see that. Well, the trick with the retinol was always formulating a concentration that would be effective but not irritating on that large of a surface area and then also making it affordable in the quantities that you need to really support that.

ANTHONY ROSSI (17:38.444)
And I'm seeing a lot more trending in like body care with retinol in it or, retinol. It's not as potent, but it's something.

DR COREY HARTMAN (17:43.17)
Arrest her.

DR COREY HARTMAN (17:48.13)
Yeah, you the Tazerac, you know this, was originally indicated for psoriasis. Yeah, that's right. And that's why the gel came in those hundred gram tubes. I love That's also why it has a category X. Yeah. Because of the surface area there.

ANTHONY ROSSI (17:55.199)
Love that. love that.

ANTHONY ROSSI (18:00.182)
And category X is we can't use it during pregnancy. Yeah. Cause you know, get systemic, you potentially can get some systemic. Yeah. I do use it. I think you're doing all right. You know, I developed this skincare line. I really wanted to, you know, focus on inflammatory aging and like this whole idea of stopping the inflammatory cascade that leads to collagen breakdown.

DR COREY HARTMAN (18:11.072)
Interesting. I have to add that to the

ANTHONY ROSSI (18:30.19)
What have you seen that's really working for you or thinking outside the box?

DR COREY HARTMAN (18:37.922)
Yeah, well, I wanna give a shout out to Dr. Rossi's line because it's fantastic. I already told him this, but my two favorite products, the Catalyst and then also the Eye Cream, it's like not even a cream. It's like a consistency I've not seen in anything else. Thank you, yeah. And the biggest issue there is just dryness, know? So if you can overcome that, you're gonna overcome a lot. So I've been using that. I've gone from Tazerac to Altrino. nice. Yeah, I was getting a lot of.

ANTHONY ROSSI (18:48.386)
Yeah, it's an emulsion.

DR COREY HARTMAN (19:07.406)
The comedones on my forehead, Cheryl Burgess called me out about that. And Sheree Fry told me about Altrino being like the best for that. And of course, she's a Yeah, so I've been using that. I use this rapamycin cream. know, rapamycin is one of those ingredients that some of our colleagues have started taking as a supplement. And I didn't want to go that far, but Raul Mehta, who used to be at Skin Medica, has this company called Reque. And it's a topical rapamycin. I've been enjoying that.

ANTHONY ROSSI (19:15.406)
The prescription, yeah.

ANTHONY ROSSI (19:36.654)
Have you seen any changes from me?

DR COREY HARTMAN (19:38.57)
Yeah, you know, so and I'm like, I know y'all think I'm good at posting, but I'm actually like very late and forget about it. yeah, when a few months ago, after I had been on it consistently, everybody kept commenting on my skin. And I think that it was a combination of those things that I was using. What was the other thing? and this is product by Skin Better called Ampra. Have you heard of that?

ANTHONY ROSSI (20:01.518)
Yeah, yeah, I was at like sort of.

DR COREY HARTMAN (20:03.854)
Yeah, yeah. it's for volumizing, you know, but the consistency and the finish on a person with oily skin like mine is like top tier. Okay, amazing. So I've doing a little bit of that too. Yeah, those are the tips.

ANTHONY ROSSI (20:19.63)
Yeah, yeah. When you first see a patient, what should they expect from you? Or what's your philosophy on? Because there's so many things we have access to and we can do one.

DR COREY HARTMAN (20:33.865)
Yeah, right. So whenever a patient comes to me, my first...

ANTHONY ROSSI (20:40.206)
your philosophy. Yeah. I know where you're going. Yeah.

DR COREY HARTMAN (20:42.45)
Yeah. Well, I always want to hear from them first. I never want to go into a room and decide what I think is the priority here. Like, let's hear what the patient has to say. Yeah. You probably experienced this too. Some of our colleagues don't necessarily do that. And it really turns people off. For sure. When you walk in a room and just start picking them apart and start talking about what's wrong and suggesting things for treatments that the patient...

isn't ready for, may not have considered that they even need it, or may not be able to afford. It's just a lot of information. We live in this space, so these things that we talk about every day, it's like no big deal. But you throw this at a patient and it can be very overwhelming. That's the thing. You're pointing something out that they hadn't even thought about. That makes them feel like total crap. I always want to hear what, I tell them, look, I know you're here.

ANTHONY ROSSI (21:24.558)
and they might not even be bothered by

DR COREY HARTMAN (21:35.95)
You've kind of described some things to the MA who worked you up, but I wanna hear from you. What is it that you've seen change or what is it about your skin that you don't like? And that way we can clue in on what we can do to fix it or correct it and prove it. I don't really need them to tell me specific products because again, it's a confusing landscape. And I think for the average person, it's not always intuitive what does what and all that. So I just need you to tell me what you don't like.

And then we can kind of develop a plan together. But I find that that's helpful. I let everybody see a mirror. And then if I do see something different, it gives me an opportunity to know where they're coming from. And then as I'm explaining, maybe make it make sense as to why we need to do a certain order of procedures or what makes sense. But I find that that is a lot more effective and it lets the patient know that you have listened to them, that you hear them, but that you're also...

I don't know, concerned about giving them good information and protecting their pocketbook.

ANTHONY ROSSI (22:39.902)
Yeah, well, that's, you yeah, you got to work within the exactly. feel like giving them a timeline really helps and like what they can expect, you know, because if we're doing like a deeper resurfacing, yeah, you get that immediate wow, but it's really the three, six month, you know, college and building restoration. That's really where you see the results. know, they, need to know that otherwise it's like unrealistic.

DR COREY HARTMAN (23:05.144)
Well, that's the thing. I always over deliver and under promise. Even when we're doing procedures, I want them to think it's going to be like, it's going to feel terrible. You know, like a lip filler. mean, it's bad. And then most people like, that wasn't as big of a deal. I want you to be over prepared.

ANTHONY ROSSI (23:11.435)
You have to.

ANTHONY ROSSI (23:18.699)
It hurts.

ANTHONY ROSSI (23:23.182)
The one person who my sister she she can take no numbing. really yeah, I'm always surprised Yeah

DR COREY HARTMAN (23:30.606)
understand people that do that. Christine Law does that in Atlanta. you know Christine? No, not She injects herself with no lidocaine. I'm like, wow. Yeah. Yeah. We are.

ANTHONY ROSSI (23:37.276)
my god.

ANTHONY ROSSI (23:41.998)
know, derms are wild. Derms got wild. If you had to give advice to someone who is like, you know, just starting out, what would you say to them?

DR COREY HARTMAN (23:54.356)
In practice and social media and social media. Thank you. I think that social media is interesting because, you know, it's really your opportunity to share your point of view. And so whatever you're comfortable with, I think you should always give a little bit of yourself because nobody else can be you. And that's always going to distinguish you from everybody else.

ANTHONY ROSSI (23:56.702)
And social media, I do a really good job of that.

DR COREY HARTMAN (24:21.388)
And it makes it so it's not so like salesy and preachy. I don't know.

ANTHONY ROSSI (24:25.72)
And how do you partner with brands? I feel like you're genuine. And you do partner with some brands. You probably don't partner with every brand that comes out.

DR COREY HARTMAN (24:35.966)
No, no, no, absolutely not. I like, I share things organically about products that I like. Like I didn't get paid for mentioning any of that stuff today, everybody. Some people might, but I did not. We need to about it. Right? But I personally cannot vouch for something that I don't really believe in. I think, I feel like you can feel it. I had one bad moment and I mean, we're talking, right?

ANTHONY ROSSI (24:50.702)
That's your agent.

DR COREY HARTMAN (25:05.358)
Let's just talk. There was a dial thing that I am, know, dial is a great brand, whatever, but this was the wrong way to partner with them. And it was the one thing that I've done where I'm like, cringy. Yeah, you live and learn and you you admit it when you Was it? It was. Can we find? The time has run out. There was one of those accounts, I can't remember the name of it. You know, they come up and they like call people out.

ANTHONY ROSSI (25:20.642)
But you live and learn.

on social or

ANTHONY ROSSI (25:34.095)
I remember that. They called you out.

DR COREY HARTMAN (25:34.67)
And they called me out on it I was like, you know what? They did, well, it was bad. It bad. I mean, it was like, washed with tile. It was bad. It was part of this derm squad. So they had like a dermatologist and like some kid and a nurse, you know. Anyway, it was not my most shiny.

ANTHONY ROSSI (25:43.534)
everywhere you're

ANTHONY ROSSI (25:53.868)
This is your confession. This is like your repent-

DR COREY HARTMAN (25:56.058)
Well, I put it on their post. I was like, y'all got me. You know what I mean? My bad, you know? And they were like, you know what? That's why we like you. Because I wasn't in there fighting it and talking about how to take my name down. I'm like, you got me.

ANTHONY ROSSI (26:08.654)
Yeah. No, I think if you own up to it, like we all change. Exactly. There's always a season of change. For sure. Yeah. I had some crazy hairstyles. I regret. Thanks mom for that. Yeah. No, I do think it's a weird world that we're in. Cause like patients like when we post. You know, they want to see what's going on. They want to what your life is like. They want to connect with you, but then also like

DR COREY HARTMAN (26:16.471)
I mean...

DR COREY HARTMAN (26:21.198)
You live and you learn.

ANTHONY ROSSI (26:36.526)
You have to be mindful, like socially aware, like...

DR COREY HARTMAN (26:39.448)
a scary world out there and people are really unhinged. you know, yeah, there's a lot. So it's a fine balance, but so far so good. I said I wouldn't do it if it wasn't fun.

ANTHONY ROSSI (26:52.312)
Totally, totally, totally. And there are some countries that have banned the use of social to show procedures.

DR COREY HARTMAN (26:58.414)
Yeah, I know Australia is the biggest one that doesn't allow you to do any of that anymore. They have some very strict rules over there.

ANTHONY ROSSI (27:05.71)
I do feel like it gives people a better idea of what to expect. yeah. For some things.

DR COREY HARTMAN (27:13.017)
I don't, I stopped like showing myself doing procedures a long time ago because I realized that you could inadvertently be teaching people to do things who are not necessarily, you know, as qualified to do, I don't know. I just, I always felt kind of weird about that one. I'll show the before and after, you we can talk about the process, but.

ANTHONY ROSSI (27:23.97)
Well, that's cool.

DR COREY HARTMAN (27:35.862)
like saying how much toxin in each place or where, I don't do that. I reserve that for the Durham residents who rotate with me. You know, some people. Exactly. Yeah.

ANTHONY ROSSI (27:44.398)
And I do try to get away from, you know, number of units or number of syringes, because I do think it's commoditizing the industry.

DR COREY HARTMAN (27:56.686)
100%. So we stopped doing, we still do units on Botox or toxins, which I wish we could get away from, but everybody in the area kind of does it. But on the filler piece, yeah, so when you come and we have a consultation and you present a problem, I give you a solution that's results-based. And so that result costs this much. We never really get into syringes. That's great. Yeah.

Because at the end of the day, you're not paying for the syringe. You're paying for what I'm going to do with the syringe. So yes, that takes away that commodity that can then be negotiated.

ANTHONY ROSSI (28:36.558)
Yeah, and I think that's important for the patients who understand, like, you are going to someone for your expertise and like, that is not something that they can buy somewhere else, you know? And that's, so it's not really just about the syringe, it's about you, you know, who's injecting it. And same thing if you're getting plastic surgery, right? You're not gonna pay just for one implant or something, you know?

DR COREY HARTMAN (28:58.262)
Exactly, that's the best analogy for it. Like nobody goes to the plastic surgeon and asks, know, how much are they, how many are the actual, you know. Exactly. So we need to get away from that. I think it cheapens what we provide.

ANTHONY ROSSI (29:12.078)
And as an industry as a whole, it's going to really elevate everyone's game, think. Because I do think patients expect more now, and they rightfully deserve more. We're in 2026, we have a lot of technology. I love combining energy-based devices, lasers, with injectables. I tend to do them on the same day.

DR COREY HARTMAN (29:26.474)
Absolutely.

DR COREY HARTMAN (29:35.182)
Yeah, I do it day too. We usually do the filler after the laser or light device if we're pairing at the same day. Nice, yeah. So, yeah, it kind of depends, but...

ANTHONY ROSSI (29:45.038)
But I do think we get better results without using as much filler or improving the skin texture and tightening, because everyone on the GLP one's now. gosh. All right.

DR COREY HARTMAN (29:56.238)
everybody at GLP One. It's going well. We really had to ask. So we just finished, it's not, we finished enrolling for a trial for a hair loss gummy. Oh, cool. And it's just perceived hair loss, like very vague. Yeah. So I'm thinking this is going to be a breeze to enroll people because, you know, I don't have to like take a measurement and whatever. One of the major exclusion criteria was being on a GLP One.

ANTHONY ROSSI (29:58.028)
How's it going, Dom?

DR COREY HARTMAN (30:26.416)
wow. It was mind blowing how many people are on GLP-1. They experienced hair loss. they wanted them excluded, but I'm thinking they need to do another arm where they see, you know, because that's the reality. Everybody's on them.

ANTHONY ROSSI (30:31.039)
and they experience hair loss.

ANTHONY ROSSI (30:41.912)
I do a lot of hair and if I know the patient's going to start a GLP one, I actually try to give them something like an oral monoxid.

DR COREY HARTMAN (30:48.962)
Yeah, okay. How long do you treat them before? Just quickly as possible.

ANTHONY ROSSI (30:53.646)
It's sort of when you catch them. Because, you know, I haven't really, most of my patients, there are some that don't experience any if they go slow with the GLP one. Because I truly think it's just from the rapid.

DR COREY HARTMAN (31:05.504)
Of course. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think it's anything inherent in the GVP-1.

ANTHONY ROSSI (31:08.622)
And I think in the clinical studies, because they didn't see a ton of hair loss in the clinical studies, they saw some, I think because it was dosed so slowly in the real clinical trials, and in real life people are doing it willy-nilly. they're titrating up super quickly, getting all this rapid weight loss and then just inducing a telogen, a flu.

DR COREY HARTMAN (31:30.851)
Yeah, especially with the compounded formulation. Yeah, because those actually weren't studied, right?

ANTHONY ROSSI (31:36.386)
They weren't studied at all. We don't know how pure they really are. And you go on these websites and it's like 99 % pure, but by whom? Come on. Not the FDA. I know, that's what I mean. I'm seeing more more patients get drug from just the random websites and that is concerning.

DR COREY HARTMAN (31:46.35)
The quality control is not quite there.

DR COREY HARTMAN (31:58.19)
very concerning, which brings up a whole other topic with this peptides, the randomness of all that. Yeah, it's kind of scary out there.

ANTHONY ROSSI (32:07.704)
people look for recommendations and I'm like, look, there are peptides out there. They do have some clinical efficacy. You really need to know the source of them. And that's, think, hardest part. Even for us to find where this source is coming from.

DR COREY HARTMAN (32:22.926)
Yeah. And it's just scary that people are so cavalier about injecting something into their bodies that they really haven't. If you can buy it on TikTok shop, that's probably just not. Injecting. don't know guys. You know what I mean? I mentioned this to a group and they were like, not, not Tmoo GOP. It kind of is though.

ANTHONY ROSSI (32:32.738)
That should be the

ANTHONY ROSSI (32:37.418)
expected one thing, you got the other.

ANTHONY ROSSI (32:47.722)
It is, but you know, mean, people, think the demand is there. Like, it's all over my feed.

DR COREY HARTMAN (32:52.706)
Yeah, please. That RETTA is like, you cannot escape it. I have friends asking me to write a prescription. It doesn't quite work that way. I have to be a lot more involved with that than I want to be. And I like my license. I don't really want to go to jail.

ANTHONY ROSSI (33:10.934)
And you know, I have taken a deep dive on this and, you know, looked at these peptides, because I really want to understand them. And, you know, for me, there's really some concerns and I want to talk to you about it because like, I wonder how you're seeing it. You know, there's this melanotan, melanotan two, you know, and that used to be like this old peptide called the Barbie shot back in the day. And it's sort of the same thing. It really is. it mimics the MSH.

So the melanocyte stimulating hormone. And we've seen some crazy moles like grow. And if you have a family history of melanoma, you should not be taking this.

DR COREY HARTMAN (33:49.486)
Well, the thing about that, you really can't control, like you can take it, but there's no good way to control the effect. Exactly. Totally. And so, yeah, it's scary.

ANTHONY ROSSI (34:00.674)
and people are looking like super tan on it and you see these moles change while on it, which is very scary. It's stimulating these moles to grow.

DR COREY HARTMAN (34:03.032)
Yeah.

DR COREY HARTMAN (34:10.715)
And yeah, people aren't thinking about that and they're still going to tanning beds. I mean, it's crazy down south.

ANTHONY ROSSI (34:16.141)
Is it big down there? Yeah.

DR COREY HARTMAN (34:18.318)
So when I was president of the Alabama Derm Society in 2014, we had a governor who was actually a dermatologist. Yeah, Robert Bentley. If you're interested, go see how that ended.

ANTHONY ROSSI (34:25.378)
Bye.

DR COREY HARTMAN (34:32.946)
Yeah, a very interesting story. But anyway, at the time we thought, this, we're gonna try to get a bill that prevents anyone that's younger than 18 from being able to access a tanning bed at all. We were naive dermatologists just trying to help the community, didn't think anything of it. Well, the sun tanning lobby, woo, came for us. Like that's when ADS realized that we had to have some lobbying, you know, somebody on our side too.

We had a governor who was a dermatologist. we thought, this is, he was like, no, I can't help you. know, he went into a politician, I guess that's a more important thing. So it ended up being watered down to, if you're under 16, I think you had to have your parents' permission to go. I mean, they were going anyway, you know what I'm saying? Like it didn't really do anything. So.

ANTHONY ROSSI (35:05.975)
slam dunk.

ANTHONY ROSSI (35:23.534)
Yeah, were going.

DR COREY HARTMAN (35:29.24)
That was our advocacy lesson there, but yeah, that was.

ANTHONY ROSSI (35:33.102)
I saw something similar, like I went to the New York lobbying group, Darrell Regal and I actually, and we lobbied to get the tanning bed age increased, that you needed parental consent. And eventually it passed in New York, which was great. But we were hammered that day, just by, there was two of us and so many people showed up for the tanning association and they were like, you

DR COREY HARTMAN (35:49.166)
Well, yeah.

ANTHONY ROSSI (35:59.97)
We want vitamin D, we want to feel good. We just kept coming at them with facts and more facts. Like you can get vitamin D from the sun. Like you can get it while wearing sunscreen. You don't need a tanning bed. Tanning beds are mainly UVA. they're not.

DR COREY HARTMAN (36:14.538)
And just the incidence of melanoma in young women just skyrocketing once the tanning beds were all over the place.

ANTHONY ROSSI (36:22.814)
And I have to confess, growing up in San Juan, did go to a tanning event. I know, I was young, everyone was doing it. You do, sit in there and it feels good, you're warm. But I came out burnt and I've already had a basal cell, so I had to get that taken care of. it's not the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

DR COREY HARTMAN (36:26.796)
You know better you do better.

DR COREY HARTMAN (36:35.436)
releases endorphins.

DR COREY HARTMAN (36:47.468)
not worth it. You look leathery fast.

ANTHONY ROSSI (36:49.39)
I know and you age faster. like, you know how much laser I had to do to repair that damage.

DR COREY HARTMAN (36:53.87)
I know. Yeah, the attaining bids are another just, you know, crazy thing that people are still

ANTHONY ROSSI (37:00.726)
Yeah, and I feel like it's so crazy because in the south you have more sun and like they're still going into tanning but you know in Florida

DR COREY HARTMAN (37:06.35)
Your hands look ridiculous. know. It's like, what is the end goal here, girls? What are we really trying to accomplish?

ANTHONY ROSSI (37:14.414)
I'm so glad you brought that up. It's like, you're so honest and you say it in such a genuine way, but when you see someone, how do you count, like, and you know they're just like.

DR COREY HARTMAN (37:23.746)
Yeah, well, listen, again, my office is always in no judgment zone. If you're coming in for your skin checks, I'm not the kind of person that's even gonna tell you, you never go in the sun, it's not realistic. No. Of course. And Alabama is a state where people really love summertime. They love being on the lake or going to the beach. So that's not gonna work. That's another reason that people come to our practice from other, patients are very,

ANTHONY ROSSI (37:34.887)
I love being in.

DR COREY HARTMAN (37:52.096)
in tomb and they just feel like the vibe is off. And if you walk in and just chastise them, I mean, there's a way to let people know. Like, you know, I usually make a joke about like, cannot believe you had the nerve to come in here like this today.

ANTHONY ROSSI (38:02.158)
I know the sunburns like they're already creeping in

DR COREY HARTMAN (38:05.44)
Exactly. They're kind of like hide, you least they have that shame about them. It's like 105. So, but yeah, I, you know, I try to find humor in everything. I try to make people feel better than they felt when they walked into the office. I feel like there's always positive, something positive about everybody that comes in. So yeah.

ANTHONY ROSSI (38:10.99)
It's a

Yeah.

ANTHONY ROSSI (38:29.506)
Yeah, I mean, you know, for me, it's like a lifelong, patient, right? Like we have, we've grown together. I've been through marriages, divorces. I've been through getting someone ready for their wedding, not having it ever come to fruition.

DR COREY HARTMAN (38:44.512)
or have the girls who are having trouble conceiving. can't, like every time I see one now I'm like, I promise you it's gonna be okay. Like I have seen this story so many times. So yeah, we get to really follow people through life. It's about relationships.

ANTHONY ROSSI (38:54.316)
That's nice.

ANTHONY ROSSI (38:58.648)
I love about their, you see their kids, you know, it's, it's, it's really cool. What, so like, I always like try to end with a little game. What's one trend you like and want to see keep.

DR COREY HARTMAN (39:07.927)
Okay.

DR COREY HARTMAN (39:12.494)
You know, I do think the regenerative medicine trend, it's more than a trend at this point. It's kind of like exactly where we're headed with regulation. think we're gonna be great. People want natural processes that just help their own physiology to perform optimally. And I think that's great. Cause that will help us hopefully to keep people looking more natural. You know, I think that we...

do ourselves and everyone else a disservice when we contribute to these unnatural looks. I really feel like it's up to us, because patients, again, lose that ability and they need you to tell them. So I think the regenerative medicine thing is cool.

ANTHONY ROSSI (39:50.572)
have to be Brian Johnson, like, you know, he actually stopped taking oral rapamycin. He actually came out and was like, you well, it made his labs like go wonky. he actually, he's an N of one, you know, but like, that was, that was oral. Yeah.

DR COREY HARTMAN (39:56.568)
He's over it.

DR COREY HARTMAN (40:04.642)
Yeah, just like the Metformin thing. mean, you know, everybody do what they wanna do, but as for me, if there's a topical version, I'm probably gonna try that Yeah, yeah.

ANTHONY ROSSI (40:13.024)
I know. What's one trend you wish would just go away?

DR COREY HARTMAN (40:18.366)
One trend that needs to go away. Honestly, feel like this, I just talked about this recently, this overuse of products by young kids is really kind of scary actually. In hairlines. I talked to a 10 year old the other day who was on 15 products. She just kept naming stuff and I'm like, what is going on? Who is taking you to Sephora and buying all this crap?

ANTHONY ROSSI (40:31.523)
There's been like so many tween

ANTHONY ROSSI (40:46.942)
I I see them by their themselves.

DR COREY HARTMAN (40:50.466)
hear that that makes Sephora a place nobody wants. I don't really go in there. But yeah, I heard it's not a pleasant experience.

ANTHONY ROSSI (40:58.934)
I know, I also think we're giving kids a poor body image.

DR COREY HARTMAN (41:03.122)
for sure. That's the main issue is that they need to be worried about something that's not even a problem. Then all the things that they're doing are actually causing their problems. Cause this conversation even came up because her acne wasn't better. And I'm thinking she just not consistent with her regimen, which is true, but it wasn't because she's not incapable of being consistent. Cause she's using these.

ANTHONY ROSSI (41:26.35)
15 like alpha hydroxy, alpha hydroxy.

DR COREY HARTMAN (41:29.378)
I'm like, we gotta stop this, you know? So that's one thing that I wish would go away forever. Yeah, for sure.

ANTHONY ROSSI (41:35.95)
mean, I do think it's like, you know, I think that is like consumerism and marketing and it's just like, it's directed at the wrong. It's bad. Yeah, it's bad. Yeah. Yeah. And it's not needed. Yeah.

DR COREY HARTMAN (41:46.188)
No, it should be kids, CeraVe. You you want to dread like bubble or a bumble, whatever it is, do something like that. Something cutesy, a few ingredients, not that expensive. If you have a- Exactly, yeah.

ANTHONY ROSSI (41:57.9)
Acne, C, your dermatologist. Nip it in the bud. Yeah, I, you know, I love me some low dose isotretinoin. yeah. I know. I wish it was so easy. Yeah. day. Well, this is amazing. Just tell us your social.

DR COREY HARTMAN (42:06.518)
It's just a trick, like a pain in the. Yeah. Yeah.

DR COREY HARTMAN (42:15.055)
Yes, everywhere I'm Dr. Corey Hartman.

ANTHONY ROSSI (42:18.626)
You are everywhere, so. That's good. But I'm so happy you stopped in through New York. We love you.

DR COREY HARTMAN (42:23.374)
Thank you. I appreciate it. Thanks. It was fun. All right. Thank you. Were we here an hour? Yeah. Geez. It really was.

ANTHONY ROSSI (42:32.546)
That was fun.

ANTHONY ROSSI (42:36.45)
How do you feel about that? Anything you wanted to mention?

DR COREY HARTMAN (42:37.942)
I feel great. I think we're good. I don't think, I didn't really have any specific agenda. Good, good. You just wanted to chit chat. It was good. Thank you. Thank Where are you staying?

ANTHONY ROSSI (42:46.744)
Thank you so much for doing it.